{"id":3143,"date":"2020-02-08T13:51:07","date_gmt":"2020-02-08T18:51:07","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/awarningministry.com\/?p=3143"},"modified":"2020-02-08T13:53:15","modified_gmt":"2020-02-08T18:53:15","slug":"bye-paths-in-baptist-history-jj-goadby-the-lollards-and-the-chesterton-separatists-part-7","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/awarningministry.com\/index.php\/2020\/02\/08\/bye-paths-in-baptist-history-jj-goadby-the-lollards-and-the-chesterton-separatists-part-7\/","title":{"rendered":"Bye Paths in Baptist History JJ Goadby &#8211; The Lollards and the Chesterton Separatists &#8211; Part 7"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<h5 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"u_0_1u\"><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/jim.curran.94801?fref=gs&amp;__tn__=%2CdC-R-R&amp;eid=ARACUs_DbD_M90uxTrAQYhIikREDhr8Z5L8s-B9leW-0NTxsQ9asjesBn8X5TvCeac6U_Mb1-xXBB83u&amp;hc_ref=ARR4iSZ8oszIDRvAugR-OlTmXL5WMekkeOUef4ZWkthOnmPtFkS57ElMu9rkh-D5nuA&amp;dti=242497449278745&amp;hc_location=group\">Jim Curran<\/a>  <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/242497449278745\/badge_member_list\/?badge_type=ADMIN\"><strong>Admin<\/strong><\/a> \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/groups\/baptistchurchhistory\/permalink\/1192407490954398\/\"><abbr title=\"2\/7\/20, 11:32 PM\">14 hrs<\/abbr><\/a><\/h5>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-facebook wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-facebook\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div id=\"fb-root\"><\/div><script async=\"1\" defer=\"1\" crossorigin=\"anonymous\" src=\"https:\/\/connect.facebook.net\/en_US\/sdk.js#xfbml=1&amp;version=v6.0\"><\/script><div class=\"fb-post\" data-href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=206052600549363&amp;set=gm.1192407490954398&amp;type=3&amp;eid=ARB4xFwiNuIi54d-etqWhgbCCTUngNewKmnJn_t5acGQ6uXTglzRMnz28JX5tubPORdSDjecjpMuNdzq&amp;ifg=1\" data-width=\"750\"><blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=206052600549363&amp;set=gm.1192407490954398&amp;type=3\" class=\"fb-xfbml-parse-ignore\"><p>Bye Paths in Baptist History JJ Goadby Part 7 The Lollards and the Chesterton Separatists NOTE: In the previous&#8230;<\/p>Posted by <a href=\"#\" role=\"button\">Jim Curran<\/a> on&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=206052600549363&amp;set=gm.1192407490954398&amp;type=3\">Friday, February 7, 2020<\/a><\/blockquote><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Bye Paths in Baptist History JJ Goadby Part 7 The Lollards and the Chesterton Separatists <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p> NOTE: In the previous installment we looked at the Lollards and their Baptist principles (Noting that Lollard was a blanket term applied by outsiders like Anabaptist) In this segment Goadby deals with one brief quote that has been quoted by historians regarding the Chesterton Separates.  I was able to find the quote made by Robinson in the book that he refers to- It is a very brief quote almost in the from of an illustration. It appears that Robinson may have been a little off in some detail but I am not able to confirm from the original document he quoted from as it is not available online (and I am not rowing\ud83d\udea3\u200d\u2642\ufe0f to England to get it at Cambridge) I believe the original may have been in Latin. Goadby corrects details here. It is worthy of note that the Catholic trials often twisted our words and doctrines. We were also purposefully vague in our answers to such ecclesiastical courts as well. If nothing else I think this area shows Goadby\u2019s meticulous eye in research and shows that there were numerous Lollard dissenters in England. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p> The Chesterton Separatists<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>  It is now our unpleasant duty to mar a very agreeable picture, painted by Robert Robinson, and quoted by nearly every Baptist historian since his day. In a &#8220;Brief Dissertation on the Ministry of the Divine Word by Public Preaching,\u201d pre- fixed to the second volume of his translation of Claude&#8217;s Essay on the Composition of a Sermon Mr. Robinson writes:\u2014 \u201cI have seen enough to convince me that the present English Dissenters, contending for the sufficiency of the Scriptures and for primitive Christian liberty to judge of its meaning, may be traced back, in authentic manuscripts, to the Nonconformists, to the Puritans, to the Lollards, to the Yallenses (Waldenses), to the Albigenses, and, I suspect, through the Paulicians, and others, to the Apostles. These churches had sometimes a clandestine existence; and at other times a visible, I wish I, could say a legal one: but, at all times, they held more truth and less error than the prevailing factions that persecuted them. One tomch uniformly denied the baptism of infants; all allowed Christian liberty; and all were enemies to the established hierarchy reigning over the consciences of their brethren.&#8221; So far Robinson is correct. But when he proceeds to write about certain men, since known as the Chesterton Separatists, he generalizes too hastily. His words are:\u2014\u201cI have now before me a manuscript Register of Gray, Bishop of Ely, which proves, that in the year 1457, there was a congregation of this sort in this village, Chesterton, where I live, who privately assembled for Divine worship, and had preachers of their own, who taught them the very doctrine which now we preach. Six of them were accused of heresy before the tyrant of the district, and condemned to abjure heresy, and to do penance, half naked, with a faggot at their backs, and a taper in their hands, in the public market-places of Ely and Cambridge, and in the churchyard of Great Swaffham. It was a pity the poor fools were forced to abjure the twelfth article of their accusation, in which they were said to have affirmed, that&#8217; all priests and people in orders were incarnate devils!\u201d  The thirteenth article objected against the above-mentioned Chesterton culprits, by the bishop, in his Consistory at Downton, is this:\u2014 \u201cAlso, you affirm, that every man may be called a church of God, so that if any one of you should be summoned before his ecclesiastical judge, and should happen to be asked this question, Do you believe in the Church? he may fairly answer, that he does; meaning that he believes in the Church, because he believes the Church is in every man, who is a temple of God.\u201d Now is not this affirming, that every good man was bound to follow his own judgment in religious matters, and not to be set down by a domineering faction, calling themselves the church? Is a man strong for being called a Samson, or wise for naming himself Solomon? Does it not mean that every man had as much right of judging in himself solely as the whole community had collectively? We go further, and prove that these six men, although all in one community, did not all hold the same articles; some agreed to one, and some to another. But they all, the Register says, affirmed the thirteenth. Does not this prove that their ecclesiastical economy allowed a Christian liberty, and that they held a mixed communion? &#8221; (preserved in the University Library of Cambridge, and known as the Baker Manuscripts) shows that Robinson consulted the Register hurriedly, and was thus led into several errors. He is right in saying that one of the men who were examined by Bishop Gray, &#8220;the tyrant of the district,&#8221; confessed that he had taught and affirmed certain false articles and opinions, and also that he had been present when such articles and opinions were taught learned and affirmed by others\u201d In other words, that he and others belonged to a body of men who, if not a church, according to the Prayer-book definition of a church\u2014(\u201c a congregation of faithful men, in which the pure Word of God is preached, and the sacraments are duly administered according to Christ&#8217;s ordinance, in all those things that are of necessity\u201d) Gray was not destitute of humanity, at least, to those of his own faith Even in his old age, John Gapgrave, the chronicler and monk of Eling\u2019s Lynn, Remembers with what pious attention Gray showed his affection towards him when a wretched pilgrim, and lying ill at Rome.&#8221; requisite to the same &#8220;)\u2014had yet meetings of their own for Divine worship, and teachers among them, judging from the terms of Bishop Gray&#8217;s indictment, able to express themselves with distinctness and force. But Robinson is wrong in saying that they were six men, and that their meeting was held in Chesterton. The Register mentions but three men, and only one of them lived in the village where Robinson resided at the time of writing his often-quoted words. The names of these men were\u2014John Baile, of Chesterton; Bobert Sparke, of Beche, in the parish of Swaff ham; and John Crud, alias Crowd, of Cambridge. In addition to the opinions quoted by Robinson, which these men were charged with holding, we may now add some others, especially as they reveal still further the character of their belief. They are charged with asserting &#8221;that fasting is not binding on labourers and married people, but only on clericos et religiosos \u2014\u201cthe priests and monks.&#8221; They affirmed, \u201cthat there was no benefit in burial in consecrated ground, and that the money spent thereby would be better applied to the poor than given to gratify the avarice of the priests.&#8221; They represented transubstantiation as a vain oblation. They declared, \u201cthat it was better to confess to a man cut off from the fellowship of the faithful (the Romish Church), than to a priest.&#8221; They taught, &#8220;that as God was the searcher of hearts, mental prayer in the fields was as profitable as oral prayer in a church.&#8221; They held, concerning marriage, &#8221; that the priest&#8217;s presence was merely required at its celebration for the sake of gain.&#8221; Extreme unction,&#8221; they confessed, \u201cdid no good to the soul, and only defiled the body.&#8221; Baptists have too readily claimed these men as holding their opinions, since, according to the third count in the indictment, all that they afirmed on this subject was, \u201cthat children neither have need of baptism, nor ought they to be baptized, since the baptism of their parents was sufficient.&#8221; It was, however, by no means uncommon for the Romish clergy in those days thus to describe the Baptist opinions held by many of the Lollards. Fox, the Martyrologist, himself no great admirer of Baptists, quoting a similar accusation against the Norwich Lollards some years before the date at which Sparke and his friends were examined by Bishop Gray, suggests, &#8221;that the thing is so contrary to the manifest word, that it is not to be thought any to be so ignorant of the Gospel that they ever would or did affirm the same.\u201d Whether, therefore, these men were Baptists still remains doubtful; but that they were unable to bear the strain put upon them by Bishop Gray is too patent from the Bishop&#8217;s Register. Robert Sparke was first examined, and endeavoured to defend his opinions; was reasoned with, and recanted. He was nevertheless excommunicated; but on subsequent evidence of repentance, and swearing obedience, he was forgiven, the following penance being imposed:\u2014&#8221; That on the eve of Pentecost next you shall walk about the market-place of Ely, when most people were there, wearing only your shirt and breeches (solis eomitia et braccis indutus), bearing a faggot upon your back, humbly carrying a wax taper in your hand, and declaring publicly the reasons for your penance.\u201d On the eve of Trinity next he was to do the same in the Cambridge market. Also, on the next Sunday, after the feast of Corpus Christi, and on the Sunday following that, he was to do penance in like manner in the parish church of Swafifham. Sparke was compelled to swear &#8221; that from that hour he would neither hold nor propagate any opinion against orthodoxy; nor in any way favour such, nor yet go to conventicalce illicitce, unlawful conventicles;\u201d a clear proof that such Conventicles did actually at that time exist; but not that one existed at Chesterton, where Robinson was living at the time he quotes \u201cGray&#8217;s Register.&#8221; The sentences on Crowd and Baile were similar, save that the places of church penance were Cambridge and Chesterton. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p> From the Paston Letters, a few quotations illustrating the national and social history of England at this time (1457) may be given. One, William Before leaving the Baker Manuscripts, in which the above facts are recorded, it may not be uninteresting to give another quotation referring to events which happened about twenty-six years (1481) before the date of Bishop Gray&#8217;s examination of Sparke and his friends. It appears, from this entry, that a proclamation had been issued by Henry the Sixth, &#8221; against certain heretics and Lollards.&#8221; They are charged with holding &#8221; errors tending to the subversion of religion and government, and with circulating false and seditious tracts.&#8221; Whoever had such, shall immediately tear them into small fragments, or burn them;&#8221; and &#8220;any one failing in this is to be held answerable as the author, until-he find the author.&#8221; Proclamation is further to be made, &#8221; that any one informing against another who has written, or stuck up, or in any way communicated such a tract, shall, on conviction, receive a sure reward of twenty pounds (about \u00a3180 in our money), and half the property of the person convicted.&#8221; Power was also given to arrest or imprison persons Conyn, a wealthy merchant of Bristol, and the mayor of that year, showed his patriotism by offering to build, at his own cost, &#8221; a stately vessel, only for the warre;&#8221; and, owing to the fear of a French invasion, &#8221; the lords appointed to keep the sea were making hem redye yn all haste;&#8221; not a whit too soon, as events afterwards proved. All this time, the common every-day life of the people went on as usual; and very curious are the revelations found of it in this collection of Letters. For instance, one lays bare the anxiety of a good mother about her son, who was at school in London. Judging from the mother&#8217;s letter, Clement Paston had a better wardrobe than wit. Although carefully describing the &#8221; five gowns,&#8221; and their colours and respective ages, his mother shows that her chief trouble is about Clement&#8217;s dulness,\u2014a dulness that prompts her to think that he must be &#8220;trewly belassched&#8221; (whipped) unless he mends, telling the London friend to whom she writes, that that was how his former master at Cambridge treated him, &#8221; and the best he ever had,&#8221; says the reflecting mother. But thinking of the disgrace of failure in the new school, she adds, with more energy than tenderness, &#8221; I had lever (rather) he were fairly buried than lost for default.&#8221; During the same year, &#8220;thieves and malefactors had justice done upon them daily, for which the people were glad.&#8221; Moreover, perhaps in prospect of war, &#8221; the soldiers were more temperate than they were.&#8221; o2 in any &#8220;way circulating such bills. The Proclamation is addressed by the King to the Sheriff of London, and a similar brief was sent to all the sheriffs of England. The inference, therefore, is plain: at that time numerous books, advocating the opinions of the Lollards, were in general circulation throughout all parts of the country ; and, as many of the Lollards held and advocated Baptist opinions, the seed of future harvests was thus being widely scattered. <\/p>\n\n\n\n<p> Joseph Jackson Goadby. Bye-paths in Baptist history (Kindle Locations 376-467).<\/p>\n\n\n\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed-facebook wp-block-embed is-type-rich is-provider-facebook\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<div id=\"fb-root\"><\/div><script async=\"1\" defer=\"1\" crossorigin=\"anonymous\" src=\"https:\/\/connect.facebook.net\/en_US\/sdk.js#xfbml=1&amp;version=v6.0\"><\/script><div class=\"fb-post\" data-href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=206052600549363&amp;set=gm.1192407490954398&amp;type=3&amp;eid=ARDzh1dfZn6syYWd9MAicWOYu1EloeOoizoaDlHnoxBsVSA0lPPfEYJc3PpGdzby-jUu-FKCgiyZLh5c&amp;ifg=1\" data-width=\"750\"><blockquote cite=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=206052600549363&amp;set=gm.1192407490954398&amp;type=3\" class=\"fb-xfbml-parse-ignore\"><p>Bye Paths in Baptist History JJ Goadby Part 7 The Lollards and the Chesterton Separatists NOTE: In the previous&#8230;<\/p>Posted by <a href=\"#\" role=\"button\">Jim Curran<\/a> on&nbsp;<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/photo.php?fbid=206052600549363&amp;set=gm.1192407490954398&amp;type=3\">Friday, February 7, 2020<\/a><\/blockquote><\/div>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Jim Curran Admin \u00b7 14 hrs Bye Paths in Baptist History JJ Goadby Part 7 The Lollards and the Chesterton Separatists NOTE: In the previous installment we looked at the Lollards and their Baptist principles (Noting that Lollard was a blanket term applied by outsiders like Anabaptist) In this segment Goadby deals with one brief&hellip; 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